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squash

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Post by Mike on 15th October 2010, 1:44 am

All "hubbard" type squash are species C. maxima while all true pumpkins are C. pepo and these two species will not cross.

Alas, not so simple. Some of the varieties of pumpkins aren't really pumpkins. For example, the giant pumpkins raised for the "biggets pumpkin" contests are species C. maxima and most* of the white pumpkins (like "valenciano") and the grey ones (like "jarrahdale) and the French red pumpkin ("rouge vif d'etampes") are also C. maxima. Other pumpkin like varieties are C. moschata ("musque de provence")

If you tell me all the varieties of squash and pumpkins you were growing I can probably tell you which would have crossed and which not. But all of them are insect pollinated so how close or far doesn't necessarily matter that much. Whether male and female flowers open and receptive matters more in a smallish garden. With squash family flowers being so short lived a bee might visit all that are open on the same day since they like to work the same type of flower at a time and perhaps not many squash type floers open from all the squash type plants in the garden. .

Saving squash seed in the small garden means growing no more than three varieties (one of each species) except for when it doesn't matter all that much if they cross.

BTW -- what do you mean by "Chicago warted hubbard"? I've never heard of it. Different from ordinary
"blue hubbard"? (AFAIK all hubbards are warty). How about size? One of the things sometimes available here are dwarf hubbards. Regular hubbard squashes are awkwardly large for family use and a dwarf hubbard isn't exactly small, about the same size as a kuri.




* I think that there may be one or two white pumpkin varieties that are actually pumpkins (C. pepo)

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Mike

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Post by Compostwoman on 15th October 2010, 1:53 pm

Hubbard, Chicago Warted (a.k.a. Green Chicago Warted Hubbard, Hubbard Improved) (Cucurbita maxima)

From St Claire Heirloom Seeds website


105-115 days. An old heirloom developed by Budlong Gardens of Chicago and introduced by Vaughans Seed Store of Chicago in 1894. The Chicago Warted Hubbard Squash's very vigorous vines bear hard shelled, dark green fruits, heavily warted and of a true hubbard shape. Fruits weigh in around 12-16 lbs., and measure 12-14", by 10" in diameter. Flesh is thick, dry, sweet, and fine-grained. Great for pies, baking, or freezing. A very good shipper, and excellent keeper, keeping until late spring.

provided in the UK by Garden Organic HSL

Size? well I posted a pic up in the tea room yesterday....mine are all about 2 ft long so have grown really well!


This was a smaller one...









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Post by Compostwoman on 15th October 2010, 3:19 pm

Mike wrote:All "hubbard" type squash are species C. maxima while all true pumpkins are C. pepo and these two species will not cross.

SNIP

In the UK and Australia, "Pumpkin" refers to what you call Winter Squash. Although pattypans ( curcubita pepo) are Summer squash , they are often also refered to as Pattypan pumpkins over here. What you call Summer Squash, we tend to call courgettes.

Wikipedia says

Pumpkin is a gourd-like squash of the genus Cucurbita and the family Cucurbitaceae (which also includes gourds).[1] In Canada and the United States, it is a common name of or can refer to cultivars of any one of the species Cucurbita pepo, Cucurbita mixta, Cucurbita maxima, and Cucurbita moschata. They are typically orange or yellow and have many creases running from the stem to the bottom. They have a thick shell on the outside, with seeds and pulp on the inside.

So we are not wrong, and neither are you. We just have different ways of refering to the same fruit!

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Post by Mike on 16th October 2010, 2:04 pm

Compostwoman wrote:
In the UK and Australia, "Pumpkin" refers to what you call Winter Squash. Although pattypans ( curcubita pepo) are Summer squash , they are often also refered to as Pattypan pumpkins over here. What you call Summer Squash, we tend to call courgettes.

Wikipedia says
Pumpkin is a gourd-like squash of the genus Cucurbita and the family Cucurbitaceae (which also includes gourds).[1] In Canada and the United States, it is a common name of or can refer to cultivars of any one of the species Cucurbita pepo, Cucurbita mixta, Cucurbita maxima, and Cucurbita moschata. They are typically orange or yellow and have many creases running from the stem to the bottom. They have a thick shell on the outside, with seeds and pulp on the inside.

So we are not wrong, and neither are you. We just have different ways of refering to the same fruit!

Well, that wikipedia piece goes back and forth. If you decide to call (n your area) all winter squash "pumpkins" then it's awfully silly to claim "They are typically orange or yellow and..." because simply not so. Very few of the varities we call "winter squash" here are orange or yellow. And while many of the varieties we over here call pumpkins are C. maxima instead of C. pepo there are extremely few varieties of "pumpkin" (US or Canadian usage) that are C. moschata.

Our main distinction between "summer squash" and "winter squash" is:
a) Do they keep?
b) Are they edible when mature or best easten as immature babies?
(you may never have seen a mature fruit of a "courgette" unless you grow them yourself and let one get away from you or intended it for seed).

In other words, the ones we call "summer squash" are those eaten immature and only available during the summer. What we call "pumpkins" are semi keeping squash eaten mature that have the classic pumpkin shape and are orange, with the usage spread to others with the classic shape but different color (like the grey Jarrahdale or the white Valenciano -- BTW, these two will keep much better than C. pepo pumpkins and we just saved the seeds of our last Valenciano from the summer of 2009 eaten just a month or so ago.

BTW -- hubbards are among the best keeping squash and saying "until spring" means less than ideal keeping conditions. You should be able to eat the best keeping winter squash like hubbards (C. maxima) and butternut (C. moschata) until the next harvest. You should be able to keep ANY "pumpkin" (your usage) at least several months, even those of the less well keeping C. pepo species. And several varieties of C. pepo will keep "until spring". Most C. maxima and C. moschata varities will keep to the early next summer and the best keeping of them till next harvest.

But you do need to know how to keep them. Molds are the enemy so some use a wash of bleach solution to sterlize the skin and especially the stem. Do not attempt to store if the stem was damaged! (need at least a couple inches) Do not store too cold; something like 5-10C is what you want. We don't let ours touch in storage so an infected one won't easily infect the next and we inspect frequently removing any showing incipient infection for immediate use.

The pictured squash? We'd just call that a "green hubbard" to distinguish from the "blue hubbard" (grey color)


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Post by Compostwoman on 16th October 2010, 6:02 pm

We call "keeping" squash Pumpkins and "eat now" squash Courgettes, usually. Although Marrows can keep for a long time if stored properly.

And yes, I know how to store pumpkins properly thank you. I usually store 20 - 30 or more over winter and am eating the last ones up as the next years are just coming ripe ( thats pumpkins...our courgettes are usually ready in early June or even earlier if grown in the PT.


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